273: COP29 Live: Bigger, Better, Bolder. Updating NDCs in Line with 1.5C

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:03:10] Great. Hello, everybody. Welcome to this event. We're delighted to see you. Thank you for making the time to join us. This is both an event in the UK Pavilion and also a live episode of the podcast Outrage + Optimism, if any of you have ever heard of that podcast, it's not quite reasons to be cheerful, but, you know, it's yeah, right so this event is going to be about talking about updating NDCs in line with 1.5 degrees. We all know the situation that we have seen this red light flashing for so long. We've gotten so used to it. But in the end, time catches up with us and the road from here to Belém is going to be critical for that pathway. And in that context, I just want to start by sharing something that happened to me last night. I was having dinner in the old town with a few friends and a few friends, and as happens at COP, a few more friends arrived and then a few more friends and the very wonderful restaurant we were in in the end, created a 25 person table in the middle of the restaurant.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:04:03] And at one moment someone said, well, why don't we go round and everyone can talk about what they want to leave Baku with. And people were talking about what the US is going to do next and NDCs and finance and something I realised something was happening to me as I was sitting around the table that I had not experienced in a long time, and that was I was feeling proud of my country. NDCs as a momentum game. I was involved in the Paris negotiations. You have to get out of the starting blocks and get moving those early NDCs, and for the UK to be a country that comes forward with an NDC in line with the science, talking about that as an issue related to ordinary people made me feel really proud of where I come from. And that leads me to introduce my first guest. Now, you know a lot about this person, but I'm going to tell you something that you don't know about him and which he himself has almost certainly forgotten. I first met Ed Miliband 16 years ago in Poznan in Poland, where I was still pretty much a youth delegate, and I saw him walking purposefully through the corridor, completely on his own.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:05:09] So I scurried up to him and I said, introduced myself, and he said, you're from the UK, have you got any idea where the negotiation desk is? And he was completely lost in the halls of negotiation. And I said, yeah, I do. So come with me. And I took the few minutes we had together to ask him a question. So I had noticed that Ed was behaving rather unusually in the negotiations and in negotiations what we see is that countries become very obsessed with seniority matching. If you're a senior official, you insist on other senior officials coming in. If you're a junior minister, you insist on other junior ministers, and that's a real problem. But Ed was not following this protocol. He would go into a room and start negotiating, anyone from heads of state to junior ministers to junior officials. And so I said, what are you doing? You're not following protocol. And Ed said to me, I go where I'm needed. And I've thought about that several times over the last 14 years as I've watched you in opposition, taking the steps that you want to take, pushing forward, asking the questions and now living your best life on TikTok and Instagram. Transforming the UK economy. Secretary of State, thank you for being here. Thank you for being Secretary of State. This is where you're needed. We'd like to invite you to give us some remarks.

Ed Miliband: [00:06:28] Well look, can I first of all, welcome you all to the British Pavilion. And I'm really proud to be here as Secretary of State. And I want to thank all the fantastic staff who are making this pavilion a success. And there is very good coffee to power you through the next couple of weeks. Can I also just do a big shout out to Tom for everything he does and for the podcast Outrage + Optimism. As they say, long time listener, first time caller, but let's hear it for Tom and Christiana, who do such a brilliant, a brilliant job. And Paul, and Paul, sorry okay. So, so, look, you've got lots of people, great people to hear from, today for this, for this podcast, let me just say a few things by way of introduction. First of all, I want to say just something about narrative, because I think it's really, really important what we're trying to do in the UK. We're telling a story about this transition, which is a story that speaks to people in the UK and explains why this is in our national self-interest today and for future generations. And I think it's a sort of really important argument. And it's an argument about energy security. It's an argument about lower bills. It's an argument about jobs and growth, and it's an argument about climate, and it's about all of those things. And, you know, I think we can convincingly tell this story about the UK, and I think we can convincingly tell this story about the world. And if I think about the changes that have happened since I was last secretary of state, I think this is one of the biggest changes.

Ed Miliband: [00:08:24] I mean, one of the changes, tragically, is that the climate crisis is not just a theoretical future threat, but is real. And it is here. But I think the other change is that the economics have moved in one direction. And that's why I think this transition is going to happen. And it is unstoppable, because the economics and the ethics, if you like, have joined together. And when you look around this COP and you see businesses that are driving forward with the clean energy transition. When you see countries driving forward with the clean energy transition, you see the the direction in which things are going. That's the first thing I want to say. Secondly, ambition really matters. That's why I'm really proud that the Prime Minister was here yesterday talking about a whole range of things, but including about our NDC, which is 1.5 aligned. That is incredibly important to us. And if I can say I'm really privileged that we've got Ana Toni from Brazil here with us. Shout out for the Brazil NDC as well, it's up 67%. And look, what we are trying to do with our relationship with Brazil is model global north global south cooperation. And Ana I can just say, I am so delighted that you are going to be the presidency for COP 30. You know, your leadership is just incredibly important. And I know that President Lula and Prime Minister Keir Starmer will be together at the G20 next week talking about that cooperation. So secondly, ambition really matters. And look, thirdly, I think I would say that we can work together across borders and across countries and across sectors as well, and whether it is civil society or business or government.

Ed Miliband: [00:10:24] I think this is a global movement and a global movement that that recognises the narrative that I described. We are founding something called the Global Clean Power Alliance. What is the idea of the Global Clean Power Alliance. It's that we can drive forward this clean energy transition in a way that is going to benefit the world. It benefits our own countries, and it benefits the world, as well. Let me end on this note, which is, as, Tom indicated, I am I have gone from new kid on the block to old veteran in this, in what seems like a very short time, this crisis that we face is incredibly hard. And when I look at events in Spain, events in Colombia as we speak, it is incredibly tragic what is happening. And this COP process is an imperfect process. But I would also say that this process, this cooperation, has moved the world. When I was last secretary of state, nobody talked about net zero. I mean, literally nobody talked about net zero. The UK's commitment was to 80% reductions by 2050, which in itself was seen as a historic step forward. Now we have 90% of global GDP covered by net zero. I mean, that is an absolutely massive transformation. It isn't enough. We need to go further. We need to go faster. But the world is moving. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you to Outrage + Optimism and I look forward to our discussion.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:12:07] Thank you Secretary of State, and Ed Miliband is going to stay. We're going to go now into a panel discussion. So Ed, if you would like to, Emma Pinchbeck, please join us, CEO of the Climate Change Committee and Russell Reed, lead delegate for the We Are Family Foundation and Secretary of State will stay. And we'll have a discussion a bit later. Great. So so, Emma, let's start with you. Great to have you here. Thanks for coming. As CEO of the Climate Change Committee, I wonder if we could start and you can comment on the level of ambition that you see in this NDC as compared to what the science says.

Emma Pinchbeck: [00:12:43] Yeah of course. Hi, everyone. You should know it's like day three on the job for me, but I've been extremely well briefed and like Ed, have been working in climate for a long time and the UK NDC has been modelled to be fully in line, both with the IPCC recommendations in AR6 and in line with what the international science says we need to do in order to stay in line with the 1.5 degrees commitment, but it's also in line with the UK's own domestic carbon budgets, and that's given us this level of 81% reduction against 1990 base levels. So as well as being an early NDC for 2035, it is also an ambitious one. And I think the thing that's really important and the statistic you should remember, if you remember anything I say is that we're aiming for a per capita emissions reduction, which is in line with 1.5. And I think that speaks to the responsibility we feel as a wealthy economy in showing global leadership in this space too.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:13:44] Interesting, okay. So can you say also just a little bit more about underneath the headline NDC. What do we need to see in terms of the domestic measures to get us there?

Emma Pinchbeck: [00:13:52] This is the bit where I get to be mean to it, so the other part of the Committee on Climate Change job. So it's obviously important to set targets, but then we need to deliver on them at home. And the new UK government has got off to an incredible start in terms of their clean energy mission. And I agree with Ed, it's so welcome. Just in terms of the signal it sends about what the UK is trying to do, to have a government say there is a clean energy mission at the heart of how we're planning our economy. So the power sector in the UK is going very well. We've got very clear policies in place for decarbonising our power sector, skirting to the bad news, the less good stuff and the stuff that is challenging in the next decade or so is decarbonising the energy demand side. So these technologies that we know we need in homes, in businesses and communities across the UK, but in other economies, and that's things in the UK like heat electrification, so heat pumps, it's electric vehicles, it's more mobility options, investment in public transport infrastructure and then moving beyond buildings and transport, we're starting to look at how we decarbonise heavy industry with everything from hydrogen through to electrification. We're starting to look at removals in the UK and we then get onto really tricky sectors of the economy, like the commitment that we make to IAS, so international aviation and shipping, which is included in our domestic carbon budgets, but also agriculture and land use. So there's a sweep of things that we expect. I think the government has got off to a really good start in some areas, but we need more progress in others because we are, like most other countries, off track against our commitments.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:15:26] Thank you so much. And and Russell, I mean you're here from the We Are Family Foundation but also as a youth delegate and you often embody that perspective. What do you think of this NDC?

Russell Reed: [00:15:37] You know, I think at a moment like this, we're looking at the path ahead. But I find myself reflecting on what got us here and some of those beginnings as well. And the one that comes to mind for me is the 1992 Rio summit, where a pledge was made before I was born to secure a safe and hospitable home for present and future generations. As a member of that future generation back in Rio, I think it's safe to say that that promise has not yet been kept and that we have quite a bit of work to do, and the result has been that my generation for me, for other children and young people, that we have not had that security or that promise kept of a habitable future of a place that, you know, being in a place where we can really believe that our futures are foretold and that they are secure, and that there's a world to kind of lead up to. In these moments, I think about how we've spent so much time as young people fighting constantly for that future, saying that pledge was made, will it be kept, how will it be kept, will governments step up, will leaders step up from all sectors and show us that that world is still possible. And I think this feels so monumental after so much lack of leadership, after so many, you know, half hearted goals, after so many ambitions that won't get us to the future that I know my generation needs. This feels truly monumental. You know, we know that so much of this gets to implementation that maybe in some ways, the easiest part is the ambition and setting the plan and actually getting there is a long road ahead. But to me this signals real leadership. It signals the possibility for real hope. It is an opportunity for my generation to start looking at something that feels possible and exciting and, you know, a future that we want to live in. And I think that that hope is the necessary foundation for action.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:17:32] Great. And so just just one further point on there, I mean, what role do you think youth can and should play in now supporting the critical years of implementation over the next 5 to 10 years?

Russell Reed: [00:17:42] Absolutely. I think so often, despite the fact that young people are leading some of the largest and most effective movements in history for this future, for environmental action. We're so often fighting for two things. One is, please, governments have some leadership. And, you know, this is an amazing opportunity to say, cool, we're maybe checking that box. We need a lot more. We need more governments on board. But this is that leadership. And it's very exciting to see that, you know, maybe we can stop having that fight and we can start focusing on the other thing, which is that the other fight we have is that we're on the outside, we're on the streets. Occasionally we're given the opportunity to be stakeholder groups, but very rarely are we viewed as knowledge holders, as people who have perspective and values in a real sense of urgency that is unique to my generation as native's to the climate crisis. And I think that there's a real opportunity here as we look to multisectoral collaboration, which is obviously a huge focus with a plan like this, to also say, what about collaboration across generations. How can we bring the energy that young people have on the streets, that young people have used to try to get to a place like this. And, you know, today we can say effectively, how can we actually start channeling that energy to walking on the same path and to having more efficient and effective climate action. And it's with great excitement. I probably shouldn't say this now, but immediately after this event, I'm running, you know, a few blocks over to the Children and Youth Pavilion to launch in partnership between my organization, We Are Family Foundation as well as the youth organization Care About Climate and Groundswell. We are launching the campaign for a universal NDC Youth Clause, which will call upon all governments in these NDCs due in February, to make that exact pledge to say we will engage with youth as partners in this, and we see youth as part of the puzzle to reaching the ambitions that are being set.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:19:35] Fantastic. Emma, Russell, thank you so much. Really appreciate you being here. So if I could now invite Diana and Nigel. Great, okay. Thank you so much for that. So we're going to move on with another conversation looking now at investment and innovation at home and around the world. Thrilled to be joined by Nigel Topping, non-executive director of the National Wealth Fund, COP26 climate champion and many other things, and Diana Layfield, chair of British International Investment. Nigel, let's start with you. How does this NDC give businesses the confidence to invest in a transition?

Nigel Topping: [00:20:06] Thanks, Tom, first of all, one other hat is I'm the business champion on the Climate Change Committee. So I'm thrilled that the government has taken the advice that we've given. And and then I'm the I'm the climate champion on the national wealth fund. I mean, the consistency of signal is so important. It's so important to say we're going to net zero 2050. We've got a process. We're going to follow it. The advice as required in NDCs is going to be based on the latest science and the latest technology, and I think we're starting to see that with the National Wealth Fund now, just I just want to mention three investments just in the last year, investing in subsea cable manufacturing in Hunterston in Scotland. Deprived industrial area desperately needs 900 heavy industry, heavy industry jobs. Investing in high tech ZeroAvia, an American company that chose to come to the UK because of the advanced technology innovation funding. And they've realised there's a really good regulatory landscape and then public financing landscape in terms of the the investment from the national wealth Fund, and then Highview Power, first generation, first of a kind liquid air storage up in Carrington again, 700 jobs. So it's innovation and jobs that are leveraged using a little bit of public money. It's not concessionary money. We're not giving away money. It's higher risk appetite money. It's a really important thing about the national wealth fund. It's crowding in more private money and means that we can be at the leading leading front, not just of reducing emissions, but of creating the supply chains that are delivering the jobs and the technologies to deliver that.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:21:37] And so that's amazing. And I didn't know about those things. It's super helpful to know that. And you I mean you're you sit across a lot of different things. You've got deep experience on the intersection of business and climate ambition. Just looking more broadly, we've just heard the next step is, in a way, the tricky one, the implementation, the measures. How can business partner to accelerate that step, to ensure we get to where the government wants to go?

Nigel Topping: [00:21:56] Well, I was at a breakfast roundtable with Ed and the business leaders yesterday, and I do think that one of the things which governments all around the world struggle with is to build consistent, trusting dialogue with business. There's often a fear from government officials that any conversation with business will be gamed, and I tend to think that the more you fear that, the more the more likely that is to happen. Because if you if you gatekeep too much, then the only people who can get around the gate and nefarious actors. So I think the, the thing that is most important is consistent dialogue so that businesses can explain what they're struggling with, what would what what would unlock the next wave and build and, and that that builds that builds trust, and I think we're starting to see, you know, the, the new energy systems operator just launched, and I heard a group of storage CEOs saying how delighted they were with the initial dialogue, which is much more collective problem solving than than mistrustful and adversarial. But that needs again, consistent policy making, but also consistent dialogue to be learning from each other and also from businesses to understand how hard policy making is sometimes. Sometimes businesses are just a bit dismissive about policy making being easy, but it's not.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:23:07] Thank you. And, Diana, if I can, if I can come to you. I mean, this is obviously a great signal from the UK, but this is a global game that we're going to have to play for the next 12 months and beyond. How does an NDC such as this facilitate investment in emerging markets and developing economies?

Diana Layfield: [00:23:23] So thank you. And, so, BII, British International Investment is the UK's development finance institution, and we invest in the private sector to drive economic development in developing economies. Climate finance is critically important for us and for those economies. Since COP 26, we've invested over $1.5 billion in projects from small ones, which Russell will know, like Virunga, which is a hydropower project in the DRC, to Kenhardt, which is the largest solar and battery power facility in Africa, which is in South Africa. And I think the first area is the sort of trust and the strategic leadership that you mentioned. I think this from the British government really builds that sense. A lot of emerging markets, very cynical, actually, about, developed world economies and how they view the climate crisis. And I think this is a really strong signal in terms of trust. And if you think about that in the context of David Lammy's commitment to really re-engineer our partnerships with these developing economies from one of paternalism to one of really deep economic partnership, this is really, really helpful. I think the second area is how you mobilise private finance. I think we all know that, you know, there's huge public sector and government commitments to climate around the world, but it's a tiny fraction of what's needed. So being able to mobilize that private sector investment is key. And so for us, it's not only how do we do that in those markets, but how do we mobilize investment from the UK, leveraging the City of London as a hub. I think we've really established a clear leadership position in sustainable finance.

Diana Layfield: [00:25:02] How do we take that global hub and really encourage investment. And one of the the early investments from BII was in Ayana, which at the time was the first meaningful solar platform in India. We've been able subsequently to mobilize investment from BP, Lightsource, as well as India's own national wealth fund into that solar platform. And this type of announcement will really help. I think that combination of trust and mobilization, and frankly, also the focus on the path that these markets will tread. So we look at two, two different categories of country. One of them are the middle income countries that are significant emitters now. So for India and South Africa, it's critical for the world that we help them find a path to genuine just transition. We're seeing a real acceleration in the India renewables sector now. Yesterday here at COP, we announced a partnership with IndiGrid to really expand grid and battery storage to enable that acceleration of renewables across across India. In South Africa, similarly, we're seeing a good path, but people often neglect the fact that places like the Caribbean and Africa need to do their initial, it's not a transition, it's electrification. This is essential for development, and that electrification can be green and can be on a green pathway if we invest correctly. And this is a great start for that.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:26:24] No thank you. And just looking at I mean you talked about building trust there, which is clearly so important. And in a way, as we look forward towards Belém next year, we're at the beginning of that road, right. We've got a long way to go. What are you looking for from NDCs from other G20 countries?

Diana Layfield: [00:26:36] So I think the first is ambition. And I really do think, you know, you've all mentioned it. UK signalled ambition here. We know what we need to do. We know what we need to get to seeing that ambition, seeing it be science based is something I hope will resonate with other G20 countries. I think the second is translating that into a really tangible policy and regulatory framework that facilitates private sector and other investment. And I think Russell called this out. It's the it's pretty hard to even get to the commitment. The really hard part, as Emma, you've articulated, is making it happen and making it happen in a disciplined way. So setting those those frameworks I think are key. And I think the third and last would be support for innovation. You know, we have a climate innovation facility. I think you've mentioned some of the really distinctive things where the UK are leading on technology. I think for other G20 nations, really making sure those commitments encourage innovation and participation is critical.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:27:33] Thank you both so much. Really appreciate it.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:28:36] Secretary of State, if I can invite you. Great. So what we're hearing is lots of enthusiasm, lots of appreciation, lots of realization that implementation is the is the step. You, of course, responsible for UK energy policy, but you're also leading the delegation here and will in 12 months time. I'd love to hear your responses to what you've heard from the previous two panels.

Ed Miliband: [00:28:58] I think it's, I think it's really important. I think the role of the Climate Change Committee, and I'm delighted that Emma has taken over as chief executive, I think is a really, really important accountability mechanism. And, you know, I think what's interesting about this is it does teach you and it teaches me that the power of example does really matter. Because the UK passed the Climate Change Act in 2008, and, lots of countries around the world then emulated versions of it. And so when I talk to counterparts around the world, they'll say, we're about to get advice from our, and they've got a name like Climate Change Committee as to what our target should be. So the accountability dimension is important. I think the the young people dimension is incredibly important in this. I think part of the challenge for old fogies like me is have the mentality and the psychology of a young person confronting this crisis and at the level of ambition and outrage and optimism that is required, and then on the business side, and I thought it was just two excellent contributions, if I may say so. I think this is the sense in which the the transition is just motoring ahead. I mean, it's just incredibly exciting hearing about what the National Wealth Fund is already doing, what BII is doing, because it paints that picture of the fact that, you know, change is just happening on the ground. Change is happening in the real economy. But but you know, it's right to say that meeting the targets, all of that is definitely hard. You know, it's it's hard yards.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:30:48] And talk to us a little bit about how, you know, you're coming here to Baku with an NDC that is in line with the science. What are you saying to your your colleagues, other ministers around the world who also are going to need to step up? Are they is the thinking that they want to go further? Are they needing persuading? Is there uncertainty due to recent elections? What are you finding amongst your colleagues?

Ed Miliband: [00:31:09] I always used to say when I was Secretary of State before, every country has its own compelling constraints. So your job, I think, in these negotiations is not to come and sort of lecture other people and say to them, you know, aren't we brilliant. You know, you've got to be as brilliant as us. It's just it's to explain what we've been able to do, what we're seeking to do, learn from others and encourage others to show ambition. And you know, what I always say is you can't negotiate with the science. I mean, the science tells us where we need to be and how far off track we are. And and it was a deliberate decision by, the Prime Minister. And I know this is, and Ana will talk about this Brazil's motivation as well, which is to to set a clear benchmark or pathway, if you like, because because our danger is the low ambition equilibrium and or not an equilibrium, but, you know, a low ambition outcomes. And so I think, you know, that's what we're, seeking to do. Just one other point here, which I just want to sort of it kind of reinforces what I said earlier. You can talk about the target being hard and undoubtedly is hard, but it's really important to say we are in the better lives today business as well as protecting future generations tomorrow. If you think about clean power, meaning energy security, lower bills, good jobs and growth, if you think about buildings, you know, we can talk about the challenges around heat pumps and so on. But better insulated, warmer homes, you know, with a, you know, a sort of, you know, a heat pump with potentially a battery, you know, to lower people's bills, make people, you know, this is all if you think about transport, cleaning up our air and dealing with air pollution. We used to have this terrible phrase, co-benefits. I think it's much more clear than that. It's about saying to people, we can have better lives today and we can do the right thing for generations tomorrow.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:33:15] 100%. And I think we've seen recently the political impact of not doing that and what that might lead to. So let's invite another world leader and critically important player in the next 12 months to join us. Ana Toni, national secretary for climate change at the Ministry of Environment and Climate Change in Brazil. Of course, hosts next year of the COP and also as the Secretary of State mentioned earlier, also launched your own NDC this week, so I would love to hear from you your perspective. You know, it's 12 months till you'll be sitting in the presidency seat in Brazil. That's the moment in which we need to close the 1.5 gap. What do you what's your plan for the next year to engage with partners around the world and bring them with you on this journey that you've kicked off?

Ana Toni: [00:33:54] So thank you so much. I mean, it's exactly 361 days. We are counting exactly. And first of all, congratulations to the UK government. Really bold NDC is really good to be partners on that. Brazil also puts this 67 target for the NDC. And as Ed Miliband said, I think as the UK, Brazil wants to show by the example, we don't want to lecture anybody, but we need to show by example. And I think for a country like Brazil that will be hosting a COP. Brazil has had this tradition to to be an example on environmental and climate issues. Obviously we had a little gap there for a while, but nevertheless it's we know which country we wanted to be. We know that we have to respect science, and we have also an ethical relationship to what we need to do to our people and obviously to the planet. And I think it's becoming more and more clear to the entire world. Those disasters that are happening in Brazil, now in Spain. I mean, people are seeing and they are expecting from politicians and decision makers that we react to that we cannot just stand still and see from disaster to disaster and feel sorry for the people that lost their lives. We have to do something, although it's really hard. We have to have those ambitions.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:35:27] And in terms of what you're hearing from your colleagues because, I mean, I'm curious to know, as you look and speak to G77 countries that no doubt are thinking about this journey, what are they hearing about what they need to support their journey to increase NDCs?

Ana Toni: [00:35:40] I mean, Brazil is a bit out of the layers of the emerging countries because we do have now an absolute NDC and that declining and is quite ambitious, and we totally understand that each country have their own problems and how they solving those problems. And we have obviously to listen to them and to see what can we do to help them to have that decision. We know that internally in many developing countries, those decisions are taken as you you cannot choose between fighting poverty and fighting climate change. We have to do both at the same time. And for that, we need to show that fighting climate change is also fighting against poverty. We know that climate change is one of the biggest accelerator of poverty and inequality. So if we cannot show that to the people with concrete projects and generating jobs and generating income and prosperity for them, they will not listen to you. So I think by having this ambitious NDC is not just an NDC that is concerned about climate, but also concern about economic growth, is also concerned about jobs and prosperity. And that's what we hope to achieve with what we have done.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:37:02] Great. So do you want to, well, what I would like to say is we're going to have some questions in a minute. So please get your questions ready. Do we have a microphone that's going to go around. Okay, over here. So please indicate if you'd like to ask a question I'm going to ask one more to both the panelists, which is how are you going to work together in the next 12 months to make sure we're successful in Belém?

Ed Miliband: [00:37:22] Well, we are absolutely committed to doing that. I was in Brazil in August, and to be honest, it was just an incredibly inspiring trip, and Ana has spoken so eloquently just now about this because, you know, visiting the Amazon, seeing the way in which the President Lula's government was both tackling deforestation but tackling and tackling poverty at the same time and social injustice. And in a sense, what I think is so interesting about Ana's contribution is Britain and Brazil might be at different stages of development, but are actually our arguments are very similar arguments, their arguments about, you know, meeting the need for prosperity, for jobs, for growth, at the same time as meeting the demands of the climate and saying that we can do both of those things. But look, I think the partnership is incredibly important to us as a UK government. It's incredibly important to Keir Starmer and I think we can we can really I hope you know, not in a preaching way, but we can model an example of global north, global south cooperation that it is that it is not only possible, but necessary to show the kind of cooperation where we are working together and we'll be doing it at this COP and hopefully in the run up to the very important COP 30 in Belém.

Ana Toni: [00:38:49] No, absolutely. We see in the UK a very, very close partner in Brazil with Brazil in this journey to COP 30. We already started by now launching our NDCs. Now at the same time we are going our leaders are going to be meeting at the G20. We obviously here at COP 29 also together. And I think there are some things that we I think we as countries, Brazil and the UK have always been countries that try to get to consensus, try to look at science, to guide us. And I think this there is a lot of legitimacy of other players in terms of the weight that they put in, both in the UK and in Brazil, to try to reach that consensus. And I think closer we are, hopefully we will be able also to help it at this COP. And definitely we count very much on the UK's help for COP 30.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:39:43] Thank you. So we probably only have time for two questions, one here and then one here. Thank you. Yeah.

Miranda Barker: [00:39:48] I'm Miranda Barker, I'm the Chief Executive of East Lancashire Chamber of Commerce, and I'm here on behalf of the British Chambers of Commerce globally. And it's wonderful to see the ambition of the targets being set in the UK, and the fact that your understanding now that this is an economic opportunity to support businesses, developing technologies, to also try and solve the problems we're dealing with climate wise. So it's good to hear the join up between the National wealth Fund and those technologies. But how do we now support the COP process to get those technologies to where they need to be, and to provide the solutions on the ground?

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:40:23] Great. Thank you. Should we have one more question as well? And then we can answer both of them, technologies on the ground.

Humberto: [00:40:29] Hi, my name is Humberto. I'm a reporter with OPIS Dow Jones. I cover carbon. My question is for Secretary Miliband. UK, the UK ETS is key for the decarbonisation of the UK. Prices are currently hovering around £40 per metric ton. Near all time lows. I wanted to ask, would this NDC announcement how will the low price of UK carbon affect these plans? And also, have you or your team had conversations with your EU counterparts about potential linkage with the EU ETS? Thank you.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:41:00] Yeah, go for it.

Ed Miliband: [00:41:02] Just on the on the first question, I think your your question is really well taken. Fatih Birol from the IEA gave us this fact at an event last week, which is and I hope I'm not mixing up the fact, but it's I think the fact was that there is more Solar power in Belgium than there is in the whole of sub-Saharan Africa. And that tells you something about the scale of rollout of finance, and particularly private finance, that there needs to be to help make this transition happen. And so and so part of the task of these negotiations of what is going to be happening at COP 30 is to work out how we can mobilise private finance, how the MDBs can play their role. And there was a really important announcement from the multilateral development banks yesterday on essentially doubling their target by 2030 for how much finance they're going to provide to developing countries to, to help make this transition happen. So I think you're absolutely right. We have formed something called the Global Clean Power Alliance. I think I said that earlier. One of the tasks we want to set for the Global Clean Power Alliance is how we can help deliver on the trebling of renewables by 2030, which was a part of the global stocktake last year. It was one of the outcomes from from COP 28 last year. On the ETS, it's one of the tools in the box. It's an important it's an important tool. I'm not going to sort of speculate a path of prices, but it's one of our tools to make this transition happen. But we have lots of different tools at our disposal.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:42:53] Thank you. Ana.

Ana Toni: [00:42:55] I start with the second question because as Ed Miliband was saying we need many tools on the financial and economic instruments. Carbon markets are absolutely vital. We hope that we're going to finalise the debate here and the negotiations, but we need to have many more tools. And I think like the UK, we hopefully will have our carbon market decided today in Brazil, in Parliament. So let's see. But on the question from on technology. We see COP 30 with four big pillars. First, nature is a COP in the Amazon. Nature will be really present. Second big pillar is people. As we said, we need to have people at the center of that. The third big pillar for us is science. Always science as key. But technology will be a really important debate for us. We have artificial intelligence coming. We know that they can help us in not being part of the problem, but part of the solution, and we will try to give that part a lot of visibility at COP 30. So we're hoping again working with the UK on that respect.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:44:05] Fantastic. Thank you. So one final question then we'll let you go, you've just launched your NDCs. We're Wednesday of week one in Baku. I'm sure you'll be going home then maybe coming back. 12 months or 361 days until we meet in Belém. As you look at that pathway, you look at the opportunity, finance, geopolitical challenges. What makes you feel outraged and what makes you optimistic? If we can start with you, Ana.

Ana Toni: [00:44:31] Good question. I think what makes me outraged is that people are not outraged about what we're seeing in terms of the disasters, what we're seeing in terms of loss of opportunity. We have so much to be hopeful about the future. And obviously there are some people that are still trying to bring us down or to slow the process, but also give me the strength to be even more enthusiastic about the future. And I think having meetings like that make us optimistic that together we can achieve so much more.

Ed Miliband: [00:45:07] I think what makes me feel outraged is if you if I said earlier, we need to be in the minds of young people is that we have known about this problem, this existential threat for so long and have been so slow to act. And I think future generations will look back at us and say, look, you saw all the evidence around you. It wasn't some theory in a lab or in a piece of paper. You saw it in Spain, you saw it in Colombia, you saw it in Doncaster in my constituency, we had 200 once in 100 year floods within about ten years in one part of my constituency. You saw it, why didn't you act with greater urgency? So that's the outrage part. Honestly, the optimistic part of it is all the people in this room look genuinely, how can you not feel a sense of optimism when you see the breadth of action and and support for this agenda, the breadth of action and support across sectors, across countries, across civil society, across business. Just an incredible range and also just finally, the British people want, you know and I'm an elected politician for Britain. The British people want this to happen. You know, they we just had a general election where just to be political for a minute, where our principal opponents tried out the slowdown, delay, flirt with denial thesis and it absolutely failed. It absolutely failed and was rejected by the British people. People want us to make this transition. They want us to do it in a way that benefits them today and protects future generations. But I absolutely believe we can do that.

Tom Rivett-Carnac: [00:46:59] Fantastic. Thank you. Ed Miliband, Ana Toni, really appreciate you being here. Thank you everybody.