190: Presenting... Coliving Conversations - Shared Living & the Climate Emergency

[00:21:55] Naima: Yes. And we are. Cause we’re, co-creating this new paradigm together. Um, I mean, you got it on, on point what you’re sharing and, and I think in addition, what we’re seeing is for example, communal gardening, right? People are getting excited about growing their gardens and, and having a vegetable garden is much easier if you’re in community with other people taking care of it, for instance. And I think a lot of people know you, uh, yeah, from the podcast and the book that you’ve, co-written the future we choose. Um, which how many languages is it been translated into now?

[00:22:29] Tom: That’s a very good question, but I think it’s like 15, 16, something like that, maybe more, but that sort of thing. Yeah. 

[00:22:36] Naima: So it’s really making a, a big impact and you know, what you and my mom, uh, proposed in, in the book is, is very ambitious and would be great to hear from you. What’s, what’s the vision that you’re laying out and especially what’s the mindset that we need to get there?

[00:22:55] Tom: Yeah, thank you for the question. So, um, so we wrote the book, it came out just before the pandemic, like literally just before. We did two dates of our book tour and then did everything else by Zoom, which is very disappointing, but that’s the way it was for everybody. Um, but it’s been great actually. And I think you’re right. I think one of the unique elements of the book is what we talk about around the mindsets. And that comes, you know, very much from your mom’s leadership in creating the Paris Agreement and the realization that actually it was the internal transformation of many people’s perspective that came first and the manifestation of that in the world that came afterwards. So we often talk about it was the shift to a stubborn and determined form of optimism that actually was not the result of success, it was the cause of it. So, so what we do in the book is we lay out three different things that we encourage everybody on the planet to do and to take responsibility for it. It’s not quite laid out in the book like this, but this is sort of how it is presented. The first is to pay attention to how we show up. You know, this is a very overwhelming moment and it’s a moment that people can feel very afraid and that we can quickly conclude it’s not possible to do. um, and that’s not illogical, right? That’s the thing. I mean, we, this study that came out last year, that looked at young people’s attitudes toward climate change suggested that around the world, people aged under the age of 21, and over the age of 14 spend about 40% of people spend several hours each day worrying about climate. Right.  That is a, that is an insane statistic. And the psychological burden that’s placing on a whole generation is just unbelievable. And that can become, that can quickly become anxiety. It can become all sorts of other mental health issues. So. What do we do as a result of that? What we can’t do is hide from it. There’s no way we can sort of pretend it’s not happening. We know enough about psychology to know that just gets buried underground and comes out all kinds of other ways. But what we say in the book is that actually we don’t need to cow in fear of that. We need to grasp this moment, realize the unique and important nature of it and kind of ride out to meet it. There have been plenty of dark moments in the past where it seemed very unlikely that humanity was able to overcome the seemingly impossible obstacles in front of us. I mean, think about. Gandhi salt marches to the beach in colonial India, or I have a dream or fight them on the beaches. You know, I mean, these were all moments that were really dark, but at those moments, individuals decided that it was not that they, they would refuse to believe that it was beyond our ability to solve these problems.  And they held that determination and that stubborn optimism, as we say, like a torch in the darkness and it enabled momentum and people started building towards that outcome. And. So it is a dark moment and real failure is possible, but you know what, at this moment, real success is possible too. And who are we to sort of feel anxious and concerned. We need to feel those things, but we need to move through them and say, we need to embody a sense of stubborn and determine optimism. We need to insist that it is possible to radically regenerate the world. And we can create a world of abundance between us by reimagining how we live. And practicing that as how we show up on a daily basis is really, really critical. And it is a fundamental underpinning to everything else we might do. So that’s the first part is how we show up. The second part is our own personal responsibility for our own footprint and our lives. Now people have different perspectives on this, but the truth is that it’s really important that we take responsibility for our impact on the planet for two reasons. The first is that it actually can be quite significant when it all adds up. But the second part is it’s connected to the first, unless you start actually taking action, no matter what kind of attitude you try to cultivate in yourself, it will always feel futile and it will always feel like you’re not really doing anything. If you start to actually take steps and do things in your life, even if they feel small and futile to begin that builds itself into a sense of momentum that makes you feel more connected and more engaged, more part of a great generational endeavor than just fiddling around on your own. And you then end up doing more. So it’s really important that we do do that, but also the top 1% of people in the world in terms of income, which I’m guessing, probably includes many listeners to your podcast and certainly many listeners to our podcast, Outrage and Optimism are responsible for half the emission. So as a result of that, actually those are the people, we are the people, that are causing this problem. So it doesn’t take many people in the world to actually take responsibility for their own footprint, if it’s the right people to really make a massive difference. And in that, actually there’s lots of guides right now to tell you how to do it, to work out what your footprint is. To figure out how you do something about it. And in this, what I would encourage people to do, and it’s really made a difference to me. We tend to overestimate what we can do in a year and underestimate what we can do in 10 years. So think about it as a decade endeavor, right? We need to have emissions by 2030. Actually, if I said to you, you need to have your remissions by 2030, that’s enough time. That’s enough time to give you proper time for proper planning and investment and thinking about it, to say, you’ll probably replace the major capital intensive items in your life between now and the end of the decade. Be it a car, be it a boiler, be it, whatever you can make other choices, or you can share them with other people as you are demonstrating in your life in a manner that even reduces that footprint further. It’s even enough time to say I’m gonna change my career and do something so that my impact won’t be so great. One of the reasons Christiana and I started outrage and optimism was so we didn’t have to go on a plane and fly around the world to talk to people all the time that we could do it from the comfort of our own homes as you’re now doing as well. So some of those changes as well when you think about it in that long term way, you probably can’t reduce your emissions by like 10% a year. But you might be able to suddenly reduce them by 40%, if you are making those kinds of that’s how those changes tend to happen. So focusing on transportation, focusing on diet is really huge. That’s obviously good for health as well. That’s your own footprint? That’s the second piece. So how we show up our own responsibility. And then the third piece is how we engage with power. So we all touch power in all kinds of ways, even if we don’t think about it like that, we might have a pension plan or a 401k. We might be on a school board or have our kids go to a school where we talk to the teachers. We might be an employee or an investor of some kind. Each of those ways, think about how you touch power in institutions you might be a voter. And work out in each of those relationships, how encouraging those different stakeholders that you engage with to do more on climate and be more responsible, particularly in this decade. That can make a massive difference as well. So those are the three things. How I show up, my own responsibility, how I engage with power. 

[00:30:05] Naima: Yes. Wow. Wow. Wow. Um, I can just imagine everyone listening is really taking this in and I just find that so practical and inspiring, you know, that little challenge, like if we say have our missions by 2030, there are things that we can do. All of the options are there. It’s just about making the decision and saying, I’m going to do that. And I think in community we can achieve this easier and faster, right. Because I think. we’re so influenced by the people who we are living with. And if you’re in a community where the, the norm is, you know, having our missions and whatever that means in terms of the practical actions, then you’re already being nudged into that. And so, um, just hearing you say all of that makes me think that ,yeah. coliving and, and communities can really, um, accelerate that transition. 

[00:31:07] Tom: Um, I think that’s absolutely right. And I think it can accelerate it from a sharing the message perspective as well as from a practical implementation. I mean, one of the things we’re facing right now in the world is that we are facing a seven to 10% inflation rate. You know, this is something we haven’t seen in the whole of my adult life. And so I don’t have any personal experience of how people respond to the idea that you lose 10% of all the money that you have every year. Um, but actually it’s gonna be quite an interesting psychological moment and an opportunity for transformation around, particularly around things like coliving, there’ll be an appetite to do things in a different way that hopefully will be an opening that we can utilize to change.

[00:31:46] Naima: Yeah, not to mention, you know, you were mentioning the anxiety and the stress, the, how we’re gonna face whatever’s coming is it will be easier together, right? And to collectively face, not only first heal all of our traumas, individual and collective traumas, but also be able to face what’s coming, uh, together and, and feel stronger. And, and. yeah, safer for that. So you talk about 10 actions in the book. Are there one or two that you think especially apply to, to shared living spaces in coliving or would you say take a look at all of them? 

[00:32:23] Tom: Well, I mean, I think that, um, yeah, probably take a look at all of them and also that we slightly express things in the book differently to those three steps, but you’ll recognize it. Um, if you look at the book or if listeners listen to the book, I think that. One of the pieces that we just to pull one out here, we say, see yourself as a citizen, not as a consumer. So there’s been a tendency in the global economy, as it is now to sort of structure things. You know, we, we consume goods and services and it’s an incredibly demoralizing way to be characterized by anyone that you are just a consumer, rather than someone who generates or is creative or a part, someone who participates. So I wonder if that is one area I think it doesn’t necessarily follow, but there’s a chance I think with something like coliving, which can potentially build a platform for a healthier dialogue between people who maybe don’t always agree, um, in order to try to have better conversations and see ourselves more as whole rounded human beings, rather than people who just consume the goods of the global economy and thereby drive more growth.

[00:33:29] Naima: And that’s such a huge mindset shift as well. 

[00:33:31] Tom: Yeah.

[00:33:32] Naima: So. As we’re kinda wrapping up this conversation, Tom would love to touch back on what you mentioned at the beginning, actually around you being a monk for a few years and would be great to hear what connection do you see between spirituality and work on climate change and this shift towards a more sustainable and regenerative, uh, world paradigm.

[00:34:02] Tom: Yeah. So that’s a, that’s a, that’s a, a very good and very deep question. Cause obviously there’s a lot of different connection points there. Um, I think I can covered it from a, a couple of angles. One is just sort of simply, um, that this work is really hard. And I think that if you look at people who work on climate change, their mental health is often quite low. And I think that’s because well, there’s lots of reasons, but I think it’s partly sort of working in a kind of a sisyphean task that’s never done. And, you know, you sort of keep working and the best you can hope for is sort of, you know, a bit less damage to many of the lovely things that you care about, and it can feel a bit empty and hard sometimes. Um, one of the benefits that you get from a long period of contemplation is the opportunity to slow down and see the flow of kind of phenomena and reaction.  And we tend as human beings to think that our reaction is contained inside the phenomena that we experience. So we tend to think, you know, someone yells at us and we feel bad, or someone says something nice and we feel good. And we sort of think of those things as fused or the world falls apart. And, you know, we panic and many of that, much of that stuff is completely understandable. It all is. But when you spend an extended period with that type of contemplation, you can see this tiny gap between phenomena and reaction and, and that gap really gives you a an opportunity to take a breath in a really difficult scenario and you can sort of then be that can be a superpower in certain contexts and it can make you, it can help you regenerate yourself. It can help you carry on doing what you’re doing. Um, and the world loses sort of some of its threat and some of its promise when that happens. So I think that’s one thing that’s been really useful. I think that. I think on a deeper level, what we’re all struggling with with dealing with climate change is that we’ve created a world that doesn’t make us very happy. As we said earlier, that we don’t really fit into very well. And we’re all trying to sort of work out how do we slow down and what are our priorities really. And I think there, the connection is much more that a spiritual path meditation can remind us of the important things. Paying attention of taking care of other things like that. And that can bring us back to a more meaningful and slower and deeper kind of life. And, uh, I think ultimately that’s where we’re gonna have to get to it. We’re gonna deal with this. 

[00:36:32] Naima: Yeah, definitely. A lot of depth to explore there. So thanks for your perspective on that. And something we like to ask, all of our guests is, um, about the term living consciously. So I’d like to ask you. What does living consciously mean to you? 

[00:36:53] Tom: Hmm, that’s a good question. So I think living consciously to me means, uh, living with as much awakeness or awareness as you can, master on one level. So, you know, most of us are basically asleep most of the time, think about other things, work on our phones, doing other things like that. And I think living consciously means trying to counteract that instinct and to be more awake and aware of what’s around you. Um, and living with intentionality, um, when David Attenborough came on our podcast, he had just given a speech that Christiana and I had been to in which he’d said the garden of Eden is more. And obviously very upsetting to David Attenborough at say something like that. But Christiana asked him a brilliant question. She said, well, if the garden of Eden is no more, do we now need to create the garden of intention? That actually, we now need to bring our own intentions to create the future that we want, which he thoroughly agree with and loved. And there’s something about living consciously. That’s living with intention that actually we’ve been unconscious in all the damage we’ve done to the world. If we are to undo that we need to drag that back into our consciousness and create the garden of intention.

[00:38:15] Penny: I loved listening to that. What an honour to have Tom on the show. One thing I wanted to pick up on is the term creating the garden of intention. That’s a really beautiful phrase. And to bring it specifically to coliving as a coliving operator or developer, someone who is taking a key role in creating a community, you have a really big garden. And so you have a huge potential influence on how people live their lives, which includes helping them to lighten their impact on the earth and feel more connected to it as well. 

[00:38:49] Naima: Yeah, absolutely. And I found it really interesting to hear Tom talk about how he sees shared living and communities playing a role in addressing the climate emergency. One thing that in particular stuck with me was his mention of the enormous amount of eco anxiety that young people are facing. Mm. 

[00:39:09] Penny: And just so we are really clear what exactly is eco anxiety? 

[00:39:15] Naima: Yeah. So. The APA defines eco anxiety as a chronic fear of environmental doom. And it can also be described as a persistent anxiety about the future of our planet and the life it sustains. So from the study Tom cited, which will add a link to in the notes, the most common emotions were: sad, afraid, anxious, angry and powerless. 75% said they thought the future is frightening. And four out of 10 are hesitant to even have children. 

[00:39:49] Penny: Wow. 

[00:39:50] Naima: Yeah. So one question that we at conscious coliving have been exploring is how can communities help people, not just young people navigate these difficult emotions and this really challenging and painful topic. And one approach that we have found very useful is called The Work That Reconnects, which is based on the teachings of Joanna Macy, who is now 93 years old and still a very active world, renowned systems, theorist, Buddhist scholar, ecologist, and author of 12 books. Her work is also known as deep ecology and active hope and Penny, you and I actually had the chance to experience her work firsthand at a festival a while back. So could you share a little bit more about it?

[00:40:45] Penny: We did, we did indeed. So the goal of her work is to, and I’ve got a quote here is to “help people discover and experience their innate connections with each other and the self-healing powers of the web of life, transforming despair and overwhelm into inspired collaborative action”.  Her work has four stages, which are represented as a spiral to acknowledge that these stages are intertwined and ongoing. And those stages are firstly gratitude, honoring our pains, seeing with new eyes and going forth. And I think one of the most powerful aspects of this work is the honoring our pain stage, because this is when we really acknowledge what’s going on. And it’s reframing emotions such as despair, anger, and fear as healthy moral responses to what’s happening in our world. So honoring our pain brings dignity to our emotions rather than shame. And it, it enables us to feel what it is that we love and care for and what we wish to act on behalf of as well.

[00:41:50] Naima: Yeah, thanks Penny. And one useful way to bring this approach to life in, in your communities is through circles. We’ve already mentioned circles in the last two episodes as useful ways to facilitate connection among residents and team members. And in relation to what we’re talking about today, circles can also serve as a safe space to share heavy emotions and to explore the un, uncertainty of, of these times with others. Right? Because yeah, we know that there, there is a lot of grief. There’s a lot of anxiety, sadness, despair being felt. but often we’re not given the chance to, to talk about it or share about it. Um, and so we often can feel quite alone, um, with these feelings, but in community and in circle together, it’s much easier to hold these emotions to make space for them and as well, take action, which research shows can instantly reduce fear and anxiety. 

[00:42:52] Penny: So true. So true. And just before we move on, since we know how challenging it can be to hold conversations about climate change, um, I also recommend a book by Catherine Hayhoe which is titled Saving Us: A Climate Scientist Case for Hope and Healing in a Divided World. And we can add that to the show notes. 

[00:43:13] Naima: Yeah. Great additional suggestion. Thanks Penny. Um, so now it would be great if you could actually share from your own research, um, Penny, what coliving communities can do to have a positive impact, um, related to the environmental crisis. So kind of taking the last stage of the going forth, which is all about taking action. Could you share a little bit about that from what you’ve seen? 

[00:43:41] Penny: Yes. Sure. I would love to. Well, as we mentioned before, coliving operators, they have a huge opportunity to positively impact the environment, especially when it comes to residents habits. So there’s evidence which shows that life transitions can be key moments to implement changes in habit. So when residents arrive on your doorstep, In that moment of transition, you have a golden opportunity to help them engage in shifting towards more sustainable habits. And I think it it’s likely that any listeners understand broadly what these habits. Probably will consist of. So things like energy, saving behaviors, waste sorting, sustainable transport, reduce, reuse, reduce your meat, consumption, eat local, seasonal, even grow your own food. Ooh, all that stuff. There’s so much stuff you can do. And I think it’s more a question then of how you actually engage your residents to do it right? Mm mm-hmm. So you know, there there’s a lot I could say here, but just so I don’t go on for too long. Um, I, I’m gonna stick with, with three prompting questions for you. Um, so first: Are you giving your residents access to the material things they need to engage in sustainable practices? And here you’ve got to really think holistically. It’s not just about the bicycle. It’s about the bike pump. It’s about the spare tubes. It’s not just about the farmer’s market store on your ground floor or next door or wherever. It’s about having adequate fridge space to keep the food fresh, et cetera, et cetera. Um, so. Second, are you equipping residents with the competencies to use these materials correctly? So here signage might be very important, especially for short term residents. And then for longer term residents, it’s the onboarding process, which is absolutely essential. But also beyond that, can you put yourself in your resident’s shoes and see where they might need and benefit from information to help them form more sustainable habits? Oh yeah. third. And this is the hard one. What are the meanings that residents attach to sustainable practices? Understanding what sustainable practices mean to your residents and then framing those practices in that way will help in engaging them. So for example, some people might cycle chiefly because they like the sustainability benefits. For others it could be much more about the health benefits or the economic savings. So in that sense, what you are doing here is marketing sustainable practices to your residents to make them more engaging and kind of speaking to them in their own language. So in a nutshell, that’s what I would say.  Think about materials, competencies, and meanings. And I need to give credit here. What I’ve just said is based upon a theorist called Elizabeth Shove and actually some of her work informed the theoretical underpinnings of my PhD. 

[00:46:51] Naima: Thanks for, thanks for sharing that Penny, uh, a useful yeah, points for, for operators to consider. So. One other thing you mentioned in your PhD is how communities can greatly reduce their impacts through sharing, which Tom also mentioned. So this is, you know, sharing things such as heating, transport tools, materials, spaces, appliances, um, and also by switching to renewable energy and increasing a focus on energy and water efficiency, uh, can make real gains there in community. And your research found if I’m not mistaken that coliving can lower average domestic environmental impacts by up to two thirds, right?

[00:47:39] Penny: That’s right. That’s what I found. 

[00:47:42] Naima: So, and the domestic sector makes up 29% of all energy in the UK and 15% of greenhouse gas emissions. So the potential impact we’re talking about here is huge. 

[00:47:54] Penny: Yes, absolutely. Which is why it’s so important to measure your impact. Tom mentioned that there are various frameworks out there for measuring your carbon footprint. And you can actually take a look at section five of the Coliving Apps, Software, and Tech Guide for some inspiration. And we’ll have links for that in the show notes. 

[00:48:14] Naima: Yes, indeed. And Penny, in the introduction to this episode, you mentioned, um, the, IPCC, which is the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. And I want to round off this episode by referencing them again, because actually their latest report has on the front cover and image of an intentional community. And I wanna mention this quote from an article by the Global Ecovillage Network about this report, which says, quote. “Even more significant than the cover art was the final paragraph in the conclusion section of the 3,676 page report. In the considered opinion of the 1000 plus top climate scientist, what the world needs most is ecologically aware and socially innovative experimental communities that network with each other and provide educational outreach and positive examples of a better world”. 

[00:49:16] Penny: Thanks Nama. I, I really like that quote, it inspires me to see the potential for coliving and the shared living movement in making the transition to a more sustainable way of living. 

[00:49:30] Naima: Yes, indeed. And I think, uh, I think that’s a wrap for this episode on the role of shared living and communities in addressing the environmental crisis. A key takeaway, I think, is that even though humanity is facing enormous challenges, such as the climate crisis, we can really leverage the power of community to hold difficult emotions, to build resilience and to make a positive impact together. So Penny, thank you so much for joining me as my cohost today.

[00:50:06] Penny: Thank you, Naima. I really enjoyed the conversation and I’m looking forward to the next one. Also a big thank you to Tom and thanks to you all out there for listening. 

[00:50:16] Naima: In the next episode, we will explore how ESG is transforming the shared living sector and how you can begin to develop your own ESG strategy. Coliving Conversations, season one, a co-production between Conscious Coliving and GoHumanGo! Till the next episode!.

[00:50:42] Clay: Hey everyone, this is Clay, producer of Outrage and Optimism here. Thank you so much to Conscious Coliving and Go Human Go! for letting us share this episode with our listeners and especially thanks to my friends Naima and Juan. Thank you for all the incredible work that you're doing. We couldn't be more excited to again share your podcast with our audience. And as a person who's lived in an intentional community, conscious coliving is the way forward. Listeners, you can check the show notes for links to Conscious Coliving's website and be sure to hit subscribe or follow on Coliving Conversations podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And I want to let you know that we're currently working on an article with Conscious Coliving about the power of community in addressing the climate crisis as part of our readable series online, where we delve deeper into the climate topics that we explore on Outrage and Optimism episodes. We call them deep dives. I will announce when the latest deep dive about the power of community in addressing the climate crisis is live. But I just wanted to make you aware that that is coming from all of us. Okay, I hope that you enjoyed this episode as much as we did, and we'll see you on Thursday.