Outrage + Optimism / Special Series

Momentum vs Perfection

In a special two-part series of Outrage + Optimism, Tom Rivett-Carnac dives into one of the most complex and emotive questions inside the climate movement right now: Momentum vs Perfection and whether these two theories of change can co-exist at the pace and scale this decisive decade demands.

About this series

Joining Tom for this journey is guest co-host Fiona McRaith (Manager of Engagement & Delivery and Special Assistant to the President & CEO at the Bezos Earth Fund), bringing a fresh Gen Z lens to a debate that can feel both urgent and deeply personal.

This series isn’t about picking sides. It’s about asking the hard, necessary questions and finding a way forward as a collective community.

What this series is all about:

Two paths, one mission: Is change made by taking the next step — then the next — building momentum without losing the plot? Or by holding firm to moral convictions, even when the world tries to negotiate them away?
Real tensions, real stakes: Why do these approaches increasingly feel in conflict — and what does that mean for action now?
Lessons from movements: Insights from past struggles, generational collaboration, and the role of civil disobedience, data, and measurement.
Moving past the impasse: What might rebuild trust, include unheard voices, and unlock collaborative, joyful acceleration even amid disagreement?

Across the two episodes, Tom and Fiona are joined by an extraordinary line-up, including: Helen Pankhurst (Senior Advisor, CARE International), Bill McKibben (Author and environmentalist; Founder of Third Act and Co-Founder/Senior Advisor at 350.org), Gail Bradbrook (Environmental activist and Co-Founder of Extinction Rebellion), Jerome Foster II (Climate activist; Member of the White House Environmental Justice Advisory Council and Co-Founder of Waic Up), Adam Kahane (Co-Founder/Director, Reos Partners), Charles “Charlie” Ogilvie (Former Director of Strategy for COP26, UK Cabinet Office), Justin Forsyth (Co-Founder and Co-Lead, Count Us In), Farhana Yamin (International environmental lawyer and climate policy expert; Coordinator/Director of the Climate Reframe Project at Doc Society), Peter Bakker (President & CEO, World Business Council for Sustainable Development) and Sister True Dedication (Zen Buddhist monastic and Dharma Teacher, Plum Village tradition.

Don’t miss Part One and stay with us for Part Two, as the conversation deepens into what it might actually take to move from division to shared momentum, without sacrificing what matters most