59: Richard Curtis Wants to Make Your Money Matter

00:26:53.620 --> 00:26:54.180

Richard Curtis (guest): It really does. I mean, can you imagine a young person who's getting their first job and has asked about their pension choosing to go into a bad default pension? It's actually not, I don't think it's thinkable anymore. I just think that no one will make that decision. And in fact, the pension companies have to catch up fast. And in fact, I think it will become a big marketing tool for them. There's an Australian pension fund called My Future Super, which has been doing really well because it's been pushing just that fact. And you will know more about this than me, but I've just moved my bank account to Triodos, which is a sustainable bank. And it's coming in the direction of banks. It's coming in the direction of insurance. All of these things, we're just suddenly seeing, as you say, COVID showed us how we were all absolutely linked, even though we had to be apart. And I do think that this all links back to the goals and to a sense of increased sense of urgency and an opportunity. We're all very sad to have lost this year's COP, but an opportunity to have, as it were, turned up the heat on all these issues and make everybody think about things in a different way.

00:28:10.060 --> 00:28:14.800

Paul Dickinson: Richard, you're such a systems thinker, if I can use that awful jargon. And you said that all you do is simplify things, but brevity is the soul of wit, you will be well aware. And I think I just wanted to ask you about what I think, the point you just made, which is maybe the most exciting point of all, which is your systemic intervention, if enough of us can get together and push on this agenda of Make My Money Matter, do you think that the financial service providers will start literally presenting themselves as the solution? Do you think the adverts might become more interesting than the television programs one day, as BlackRock or Legal in General try and compete for our attention and our money, rather than, as you said, the deadening default where you don't even know where your money is going? Yeah.

00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:56.280

Richard Curtis (guest): Look, I think it's a selling point. And by the way, I think one of the things I'm saying to all the companies that I talk to is tell people the good stuff that you're doing. The time for modesty is over. You actually have to tell people what you're doing to change your product, to make it better, what you're doing with your supply chains, admit the fact when you've made mistakes, say that you've improved it. I think it's going to come a really important part of the focus of marketing. People who don't do it, people will notice that they haven't done it.

00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:31.280

Tom Rivett-Carnac: We are now going to go to some questions from the audience. We've had a bunch of questions already, and we would invite you if you have questions to add them into the chat, and then they will be filtered through to us. Very exciting. I'm going to read them out. The first one comes from someone called Zabrina Tucker who defines herself as a stubborn optimist. She'll be pleased to hear. Yay.

00:29:48.320 --> 00:29:49.700

Christiana Figueres: Welcome to the family.

00:29:49.800 --> 00:29:50.780

Tom Rivett-Carnac: It's a very good question as well. She says, as a young person, I often find myself feeling more outraged and optimistic when I talk to my parents' generation. They don't seem to understand the issue at all. And if they do, they don't understand the urgency. A lot of them currently only think of us as young and angry, and they think we don't understand the way the world works, and I want to find a way to change this. So I'm wondering, how can I get through to this generation so they can join us in this fight? Wow.

00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:24.460

Richard Curtis (guest): Well, look, I mean, if they're not getting the message now, I mean, the Black Lives Matter movement, that's been such an interesting thing, this sort of explosion of interest in it. And suddenly, I feel the weight of the argument is with the young, is that they really do have to understand that this is something that is so deep and so systemic, and that my entire generation has been part of endorsing, basically. I mean, I'm deeply aware of doing it. So I'm hoping that, as it were, the tide of opinion will begin to change, and parents will start to say, well, there are some really interesting new things happening. And I think one of the things is, oddly enough, children sending their parents an example. I tried to write a little sketch for Make My Money Matter, which started with a dad saying to a daughter, so we've got to talk about something very serious, you must take up out of pension. And then ended with the daughter saying, I've got to talk to you about something very serious. Where is your pension? Have you done the right thing? So I think, you know, do the right thing and, you know, lock them out of the house if they don't listen to you.

00:31:30.460 --> 00:31:35.640

Tom Rivett-Carnac: And maybe if we get a phone number, unsolicited call from Richard Curtis to tell them what's what, what do you think about that?

00:31:38.100 --> 00:31:41.620

Richard Curtis (guest): You know, I've had some dodgy TV programs in my time. I haven't got a leg to stand on by anyone who's actually seen Mr. Beans' Holidays. So I think it's better if she doesn't.

00:31:49.040 --> 00:31:50.020

Tom Rivett-Carnac: Comes from her. Christiana, do you want to give an answer to that one?

00:31:52.220 --> 00:32:03.500

Christiana Figueres: Yeah, I think there's a pretty simple question being a parent myself that young people can ask their parents and that is, do you care about my future? That sort of puts the context and then from there we can have a conversation because I think that's where we have to go. And it's very much about, especially with parents, I think it's very much about addressing the heart rather than the brain because the brain is calcified. Of my generation, our brain is calcified into the structures and the values and the logic of what was. And the heart is much more fluid. And I think if kids ask their parents, if young people ask their parents, do you care about my future? You're addressing their heart. And that could be an interesting channel to then move up into the head and give the arguments. But first start at the heart level.

00:32:57.560 --> 00:33:03.840

Tom Rivett-Carnac: Yeah, so that's that's actually a good segue to the next question, which is about the heart level from a different perspective. This is from Joanne Taylor in London. So she says, I've been interested in environmental issues for many years, but I've noticed over the past year, I seem to have lost my connection to this important issue. I continue to do what I can in my own life, recycling, et cetera. But I can no longer find that I feel strongly about this. Can you offer me any advice as to how I can reconnect emotionally with the environmental crisis all around us?

00:33:27.060 --> 00:33:27.760

Richard Curtis (guest): Wow. Wow. That's a very interesting question. It's interesting that the COVID thing hasn't, you know, reignited some of that passion. I mean, one of the things that my way into it, because, you know, I started at Comet Relief, is this increasing understanding that it's planet and people at exactly the same time. You know, and make sure that you don't only focus on the sort of beauty of nature and on the planet and the world. Make sure you remember that if there's a flood in, you know, the UK or America, you lose a few lives. If there's one in Bangladesh, you lose 250,000 lives. You know, if you actually care about the least well-off people, that's climate. If you care about women, that's climate. If you care about people who are in civil war and refugees, that's climate. So, you know, I do think that you can see it all around you. And I think that would be to link in your sense of human compassion, as well as your sense of the well-being of the planet. If that isn't something that's, you know, on her mind, that certainly is key part to my passion about the subject.

00:34:50.780 --> 00:34:57.940

Christiana Figueres: Well, I would very much agree with Richard, because we have to keep that dimension in mind. And I would add, for someone who feels disconnected with nature, maybe start small in order to link to the large. And maybe just ask yourself a very simple question. The water that I drink, where does it come from? Just see if you can follow that. Just look at the water in your glass and in your mind's eye, follow it back to where it came from. It comes from nature. The same thing with the air that we're all breathing. Just stop breathing for a moment until you answer the question, the oxygen that I'm breathing, where does it come from? It's not man-made, it's not woman-made, it's not child-made, it's nature-made. And the same thing with every morsel of food. The fact is that we have allowed ourselves to get disconnected from nature because we are overlooking the very, very basics that our survival today, our survival, which means we need water, we need food, and we need air, our survival depends on nature providing that to us. But we overlook it. So, you know, pretty simple little exercise. Stop breathing for a few minutes and ask where the air is coming from. Look at anything that you're drinking and figure out exactly where it is. It doesn't come from the faucet, okay? I guarantee that. Just walk it back in your mind's eye. And the same thing with your food. And that might just open for you a connection with nature that is there, and that is only in our head that we have closed our door, but we can easily open that door.

00:36:46.060 --> 00:36:47.640

Paul Dickinson: One final tiny little thought. You know, this whole area is just getting bigger and bigger. I've only worked in climate change two decades, not long by many people, but it has just become more and more important every single year. So in terms of, you know, work and leisure and business and the culture, this is the thing to connect to, even though we all have ups and downs in our intention.

00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:12.120

Tom Rivett-Carnac: It's amazing how many questions are coming through that focus on our personal experience of this and our grief. I mean, it really shows how people are feeling with regards to this issue. But we'll come back to another one of those in a minute. But just for now, there's an interesting question from Lucinda. I think, Richard, where she says, If I contact my pension provider and find out they are investing unethically, what next?

00:37:26.780 --> 00:37:29.260

Richard Curtis (guest): You ask for a product that isn't. That really is. It's not as simple as that. You know, and it'll be a bit complicated, but, you know, nothing in life is completely easy. But you should just say to them, I'm really enthusiastic to make a change where I go for whatever you think is the most ESG consistent, the most sustainable, the one that I can be proudest of. I really want to stay with you as my pension provider, but I really want to be proud of the things that I'm doing. Can you tell me what you got? And if they get that question from 100 people tomorrow, from 1,000 people, from 10,000, they're going to get really good answers soon. And they're going to invest more in brilliant big businesses and brilliant small businesses. So I think the answer is ask one question, then ask two, then ask three, and then you'll get your way.

00:38:20.580 --> 00:38:22.080

Paul Dickinson: And can I slip in one, sorry.

00:38:22.080 --> 00:38:23.040

Christiana Figueres: Yeah, sorry. Richard, what if that person says, well, actually, we're a passive investor. We don't really have it in our hand to decide in which companies we invest in and which we don't? That answer I have heard, I don't know how many times. So how do you push on that one?

00:38:40.040 --> 00:38:43.320

Richard Curtis (guest): Well, one, I think you're getting that answer less often. I mean, strangely, I got that answer a year ago when I asked the question and then I got a different answer. And if, well, then I would say, can you give me some examples of some of the companies that you think I may not like that I am investing in? And if they do come back and say gambling and say arms and say, you know, people who don't watch out for gender and diversity and fossil fuels who aren't making any difference, I'd leave.

00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:19.460

Paul Dickinson: And that is absolutely the right thing to do. Can I add one little tricky question? A very clever thing you can do sometimes is ask them to do the work. So just ask your pension provider to confirm to you that they're investing in your best interests. They have the responsibility to confirm that to you. You might want to point out to them problems with climate change. And how are they going to confirm? They have the responsibility to prove to you that they are investing in your best interests. If they fail to satisfy you, that's their flaw.

00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:49.380

Richard Curtis (guest): And by the way, there's going to be big progress here. One of the things that Mark Carney is working on is that every investment portfolio will have a promise that it is or isn't net carbon and halving carbon by 2030. And he's even pushing that portfolios should have temperatures attached. So, you know, that would be a thing that I'm hoping a year from now when people ask, they can just say, what is the profile in terms of net carbon and in terms of temperature of this portfolio? And if it's high, say you want to go to their lower one. Great.

00:40:21.500 --> 00:40:25.900

Tom Rivett-Carnac: So we've got a question now about, I think it's probably related to Boris Johnson's speech yesterday in the Midlands. So she says, Elise Hockley, how can British citizens remain optimistic after the recent announcement of our Prime Minister's new deal? If everything rests on an urgent green regeneration plan post-COVID, then what's the next step if it appears we're not getting the support we desperately need from our government? I think it's a really interesting question because we've talked so much about the green recovery and building back better. I think this question is, what do we do if that doesn't come through as the way that we might hope?

00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:56.560

Richard Curtis (guest): I think the others may be better equipped to answer. I do think that one of the things that is on our side is the COP and is our responsibility for leadership on these issues. You can genuinely say that the government is, theoretically, this is a subject that they are meant to be leading on. So you can hold them to account every question that you ask because they've made a promise that they're going to lead the world in this. They've made their promises about temperature and carbon and all these things. So at least you got proper leverage. The one thing we can't allow to happen after COVID is for everyone to say, look, just give us five years. Just give us five years to do things in the old way, and then we'll be back with some new ideas because we've got the COP and we've only got nine more years of the sustainable development goals. So I think that you have to take people on the promises and the situation and push hard on it. It isn't something that can be sidelined.

00:41:57.260 --> 00:41:58.720

Tom Rivett-Carnac: Christiana?

00:41:58.720 --> 00:42:16.880

Christiana Figueres: Well, Richard, I wanted to ask you, because we have said quite a few times and discussed here on the podcast, that we used to think that we had, I don't know, three years or 10 years whatever to address climate, because we have to be at one half global emissions by 2030. But we've actually been discussing to quite an extent the fact that with the economic recovery that comes after the health crisis post-COVID, that timeline has actually shrunk quite dramatically, because the trillions of dollars that governments are going to put in to the economy are actually going to determine what that economy will look like for at least the next 10 years, if not more. So it's actually a very, very short timeline. Those trillions are actually going to determine. And I wondered from your perspective, is it the same argument with the SDGs? Are we actually determining right now, over the next 3 to 18 months, when all of this COVID recovery money is going to be injected into the economy? By the way, as debt that our children will have to repay, is this the timeframe in which we will literally be determining whether we get to achieve the SDGs by 2030 or not? Do we have a second chance after this?

00:43:23.040 --> 00:43:25.140

Richard Curtis (guest): Well, look, I think that's a very profound point. And I think one of the things that Paul Polman has said to me at Unilever, which has been so utterly demonstrated by the COVID crisis, is he said to me that failure to act on any single one of the goals, the cost of that is more than the cost of fulfilling all the goals. So in other words, the cost of fulfilling the needs of the goals was less than the cost of this one crisis in terms of health. So I do think that at this moment of reinvestment, if you're not fighting for diversity, if you're not fighting for education and gender equality and everything that, you're just, it doesn't make any business and financial sense. You're just building up tremendous costs and the potential of crisis coming on. So I would really love this government now to put the SDGs at the center of what they're doing. And really like a lot of businesses are doing. I mean, it is interesting. We've got this group of, what we call the Business Avengers, who are 17 businesses who are specifically committed to doing something about the goals. So I think making a noise, I would also say making a noise about the SDGs, pointing out that that is a specific responsible committed to deadline is one political trigger that we ought to be pushing.

00:44:46.460 --> 00:44:47.320

Tom Rivett-Carnac: Great. So we have time for one more question, and then we're going to be bringing in Jay Beans on Toast to bring us some music, which is very exciting. So I'm just going to read this one out. It's going back to that sort of emotional response to this. It's from Julie Zoe of Norway. How do I not feel guilty for being a mom in the climate crisis? I only tackled my grief over the planet and went through the stages of mourning for Earth as we know it after having a baby. Putting life into the world made me reflect on more than her future, but the future of the planet. Now I want a better future and try to do all I can, but I can't stop being sad and feel guilty for the life I have created on this planet.

00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:24.200

Christiana Figueres: Wow.

00:45:24.200 --> 00:45:38.920

Richard Curtis (guest): I mean, that's all I'd say is from my experience, you've, as it were, given birth to the most powerful agent of change that you could have done. I think that's the thing. It's actually the conversations I'm having on transgender issues, diversity with my kids are brutal, because they are absolutely determined to change things, quicker than I was. So actually, you've given birth to the very means by which you will be able to do the job better. It's like you've hired a very young employee, quite cheap, who's actually going to be the person who makes the changes in your life and you do things. You will stop being responsible for them. They're going to be responsible for you and they're going to do the job better than you've done. That's how I'm feeling now. I'm being pushed about and changed by my kids at such a rate and that's what we're expecting on things like Make My Money Matter and the Consumer Revolution and all the pressure, all these brilliant young feminists, all the people fighting. We used to call people crazy but they're talking about mental health with such passion and such understanding. What I would say is you're setting us up for a win by having a new child.

00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:45.880

Paul Dickinson: I love it. Absolutely and don't worry about that. The problem isn't really the people. The problem is how we live. I mean, nobody really says there are too many insects because insects fit in and they eat our waste and they live in an entirely circular way. So as long as we turn in to learn to live in the right relationship with nature, she will provide for us and you don't have to worry. But it is about how we live. You can't go flying to the Maldives every weekend.

00:47:11.220 --> 00:47:13.000

Tom Rivett-Carnac: Christiana, do you want to add anything before we welcome Jay?

00:47:13.840 --> 00:47:19.300

Christiana Figueres: Well, I just want to echo Richard's words because my daughters are my teachers. And I would say to any young mother who's just brought another human being, a wonderful child to the earth, beware. You have a life coach that will be there and will be mentoring you your whole life, exactly as Richard has said. So there we are.

00:47:38.860 --> 00:47:42.540

Richard Curtis (guest): She's going to check your pension in 10 years' time. It better be ethical.

00:47:44.540 --> 00:47:45.060

Tom Rivett-Carnac: Get it ready.

00:47:45.780 --> 00:47:49.140

Christiana Figueres: She'll stand in front of the shower and say, Mom, that's enough hot water. Turn it off.

00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:55.200

Paul Dickinson: She will lead the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund and its trillion dollars to a great future.

00:47:55.200 --> 00:47:55.460

Tom Rivett-Carnac: Okay. I think we've terrified Julie enough. What do you think? Okay. So this is a very exciting moment. For a long time, we have been aware at Outrage and Optimism that there is just the most remarkable artistic response to climate change going on. And one way that that is manifesting is in music. So we have wanted for a long time to start incorporating music into the podcast through this brilliant partnership that we've established with SoFar that we will tell you more about on the podcast in future weeks. We've started to do that. And this week we have the brilliant Beans on Toast. So Jay, please join us on the livestream. How are you doing?

00:48:26.820 --> 00:48:27.160

Beans on Toast (musician guest, Jay McAllister): Very well. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

00:48:28.120 --> 00:48:28.440

Tom Rivett-Carnac: Great. It's very exciting to have you here. So we're going to hear your song On and On in just a minute. But I wonder if you just want to say something about that song, the inspiration for it, for people who haven't seen it. It is just the most perfect Outrage and Optimism song, because it contains both.

00:48:43.080 --> 00:48:54.860

Beans on Toast (musician guest, Jay McAllister): It is a very optimistic song, tackling, I guess, subjects that aren't generally deemed optimistic, be it polarised politics or climate crisis, basically. And I think with songwriting, I've written a lot of songs about the environment, and there's not a huge amount of good news to tap into, but there's not much point of writing a song if you're just bringing people bad news and the kind of, we're all doomed. There's no point. It needs a glimmer of hope in the song, as we need a glimmer of hope as humans, as that lovely lady who just asked the question, you know. That hope is really important, because otherwise, what is the point, basically? So it's a song about loving life, really, and even in this very confusing time that we're in. And I guess that was the sort of motivation behind writing it.

00:49:34.940 --> 00:49:37.800

Tom Rivett-Carnac: And what do you think about kind of the artist's response at this moment? Because for a long time, it felt like artists weren't, you know, we couldn't see them in this. And then all of a sudden, it feels like it's everywhere. What do you sort of think about that?

00:49:46.540 --> 00:49:53.720

Beans on Toast (musician guest, Jay McAllister): Yeah, I mean, I don't know what, I don't think anybody's ever really known what an artist's kind of duty is in humanity. And that's kind of the beauty of it, really. So, under kind of crisis, it's, I mean, it's important. I guess everybody has a role to play. So certainly musicians and artists across the whole, of course, and music's particularly good at sharing ideas in simple formats, bringing people together in kind of, in a community under similar ideas, stuff like that. So yeah, there's, you know, there's, there's, I also don't think that we necessarily need to be inundated with songs about polar ice caps melting. I don't think that's, um...

00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.700

Christiana Figueres: You don't think that's inspiring, Joe?

00:50:32.700 --> 00:50:33.440

Beans on Toast (musician guest, Jay McAllister): Um, it is. Well, I think sometimes music's just an escape as well, isn't it? And you perhaps need someone to, for example, Taylor Swift singing songs about ex-boyfriends gives her a bigger platform that if then she one day stands up and says to her, millions of people that love her music, I think we should all live green lives. That's a lot more powerful than me singing an Extinction Rebellion rally kind of, you know, about the climate crisis. So I think there's a big array. I think probably the most, the most interesting political move in music since the world turned upside down is the K-pop fans kind of emptying out Donald Trump's money.

00:51:12.380 --> 00:51:13.960

Tom Rivett-Carnac: That was so funny.

00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:15.920

Beans on Toast (musician guest, Jay McAllister): Yeah, it's incredible. And it's, I mean, who would have thought that such a political move would cut? I don't know much about K-pop, but I can only guess that it's not political music. Yeah. And that shows the power of musicians and communities working towards something that isn't necessarily singing about it directly or tackling about it. I mean, I choose to do it a different way. I'm a folk musician, so I sing about it in a very open, honest fashion, but there's many roles for the artists, I guess.

00:51:45.460 --> 00:51:53.300

Paul Dickinson: Can I ask both you and Richard a question, which is a lot of people might say, well, if climate change was a real problem, the politicians or the celebrities would have told us about it. And in a sense, the politicians are a bit compromised, but the celebrities do seem a bit quiet, not all.

00:51:58.940 --> 00:52:00.400

Richard Curtis (guest): I think they're getting noisier. I think they're getting noisier.

00:52:01.680 --> 00:52:04.140

Christiana Figueres: Oh yeah, I think so too.

00:52:04.140 --> 00:52:06.200

Richard Curtis (guest): They're going to now rise to the occasion. But there's no musician who's now not thinking about the environmental cost of touring. You know, this is suddenly a big thing for them. And I think that will be one of the effects of COVID. So and then what the SDGs do, which is say that the issues that we're talking about are all linked in together. The diversity has got to do with business. The climate has got to do with people. So I think that there is a sort of more coherent attitude to it all. I think I mean, I hope that's becoming less the case. I hope they really will be a strong part of the movement. My two favorites are Saltwater by Julian Lennon and Mercy Mercy Me. I think those are really great environmental songs. I will listen to those.

00:52:53.160 --> 00:52:56.300

Christiana Figueres: On the list for this podcast later on.

00:52:56.300 --> 00:52:59.880

Beans on Toast (musician guest, Jay McAllister): I think it's quite hard to get people to listen to a song in the first place. I think new musicians coming up, maybe that in the past there is a bit, I don't know, concerned. It's also a bit of a battlefield online now, isn't it? And if you're dealing with difficult subjects, you know, sometimes it's easier just to not go there in song. You know, it's somewhere I'm happy to go.

00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:18.900

Paul Dickinson: Ricky Gervais says, don't preach. But at the same time, I do think when you've got a platform, you do need to speak out. Jane Fonda told us that the famous people should be repeaters of the messages of the movement.

00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:31.120

Tom Rivett-Carnac: So we're going to hear a song now. We have pre-recorded it earlier today, just for microphone and bandwidth reasons. So in just a moment, we're going to ask Clay to roll the tape, but that will take us to the top of the hour. So I just wanted to say before we roll it, thank you so much, Richard, Jay, for participating. This has been so much fun to do this live episode of Outrage and Optimism. Thank you everybody for joining us. This will be going out as usual as a podcast on Friday. We've got some great guests coming up on the podcast as well, even beyond this week. So if you don't subscribe, please subscribe. Visit Make My Money Matter, download Beans on ToastMusic. Ask about your patience tomorrow.

00:54:02.560 --> 00:54:03.740

Paul Dickinson: Take action.

00:54:03.740 --> 00:54:04.580

Tom Rivett-Carnac: There you go. Today, today.

00:54:04.840 --> 00:54:07.260

Richard Curtis (guest): The World Day End on Sunday. Thank you so much.

00:54:08.420 --> 00:54:09.360

Tom Rivett-Carnac: Do it now. Thanks for joining us. Here's the song. Thank you.

00:58:49.115 --> 00:58:53.675

Clay (podcast producer, livestream announcer): So there you go, another live stream episode of Outrage and Optimism. Outrage and Optimism is a production of Global Optimism and is produced by Clay Carnil, an executive produced by Marina Manzivier-Herman. Our hosts are Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac, and Paul Dickinson. It's teamwork that makes the dream work, and that team is Katie Bradford, Sarah Law, Sophie McDonald, Lara Richardson, Sharon Johnson, Fran Newman, Sarah Thomas, Nigel Topping, and Michael Northrup. Okay, I have a lot of thank yous this week, so here we go. Special thanks this week to Adam Maestro, Adam Gainsborough, David Heyman, and Claudia Guinness. They all helped organize and strategize this week's episode and live stream, so thank you to them. Thank you to everyone who submitted a question this week for the live stream. I owe a few of you an email back, so that's coming. Thank you to Jay from Beans on Toast for an amazing musical performance. It was thrilling to have our first live performance, and we're really excited that this was the kickoff of our partnership with SoFar Sounds. So we'll be having more musical artists on soon. And last but certainly not least, thank you to our special guest this week, Richard Curtis. So since you're going to ask about your pension, the moment you stop listening to this podcast, I've added a link in the show notes to Make My Money Matter so you can get more informed, stay up to date with their campaign, and of course, make your money matter. And this podcast is just one way that we go deeper on climate and create a better future. You can join us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at Global Optimism to keep the conversation going. And please leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts. I read every review that comes through, and we love hearing about what you like about this podcast and where it's finding you at this moment. Okay. Next week, more outrage and more optimism. See you then.